TOPIC: Alloderm then some problems...went to Belladerm

I was not going to post, but truth be told I owe it to people like Soma and Richard. Your posts have been so helpful. I will get to my journey in a moment, but Soma and I did not ever get to talk, but did exchange PMs. Thanks Soma for your posts. And especially thanks to everyone for the pics. Good pics are so helpful to the readers. I am toying with whether or not to post mine...I likely will just to help you guys. OK. This is not an easy process. Is it worth it? Damn. Tough question. When everything is fine I say yes. There were many nights though where I just wished I never started down this path. Now I am glad I did it. Started the process after seeing Dr. Rosenthal on TV being interviewed by Dr. Drew. To me that made him valid. It made the process seem like a breast enhancement surgery. Actually I first saw a guy on Oprah (I think) that had the operation and I was like...wow! How could they even do that?! Is this for real??? After seeing it on Oprah and then seeing the Dr. Interview I was becoming very interested. Discussed it in passing a few times with wife. She thought it was stupid and told me I was big enough and she liked me just how I was. So let's talk about that for a minute. What do most people think about it? What will your girlfriend, wife or future girlfriend or wife think? Think of human behavior. We are social beings and exhibit crowd behavior. We also like to do business and reproduce with people that are, on the margin, similar to us. There is a word for it. Let me go further'when a school of fish dart suddenly left'why do they do this? (One moves and an instant later another and it seems like the whole school moved at once. Why do animals and fish also like to hang around with similar looking AND acting members of the same species? Survival. If you stick out you get attacked and invite danger to those around you. It is also a shortcut to take social and other cues from others. One person looks up at a skyscraper'passerbys care less. Two people look up (at nothing) and maybe one person out of many looks up. Fifteen do it and almost everyone will look up because they think the group's actions should be mimicked. It is hard-wired into our brains. OK. So to many girls breast jobs are fine'they are more socially acceptable (and it deals with their insecurities and asthetic beauty'not ours). Not surprisingly, many girls with large breasts will say it is silly to get a breast job (just be happy with what you have). Easy to say when you have nice breasts. So'statistics show how large men are'how much variability there is, etc. But we get obsessed and think or feel either somewhat inadequate or just yearn for more. Your girlfriend (etc.) is likely to react negatively at first. She is half answering your question and half answering how she thinks other women would react. The only mature, honest answer should go something like this (also assumes girl does not suffer from low self-esteem)''You know I am a little surprised. I did not know that existed. Are you serious or just testing me?' Once you say, 'well I am not sure I am serious, but if I was what do you think?' She should then say, 'If you felt strongly about it, weighed the risks, had no extenuating trama or emotional upset affecting your decision and you thought it through, then I would say it is fine, but not necessary.' They will rarely be totally honest and direct. They are not going to say, 'You are in the range and I have orgams with you, but frankly more Girth and/or length would feel and/or look better. We talk about penis size amongst ourselves. More of us than not have talked about a big penis or made comments many times. When we meet you we check your package out. Further, of the lovers I have had you are average (or just below, just above, etc. I also think with more size you would be a better lover because your confidence would enhance the experience.' So by all means discuss it with your mate or do the procedure between mates. What is it like to go through the process? What should you expect? Wow'so many pieces of advice to share. As I am writing this I am realizing I have a lot to share. If you start responding and I do not reply it is because I have a lot going on on many levels outside of this aspect of my life. I will, however, keep sharing and will try to reply to posts and PM's. OK so a breast surgery is way, way different. Not that I have had one (haha). Many surgeons do them. The screw-ups are fewer and farther between that when the surgeries started. The practice is accepted both socially and in the medical community. This surgery has a limited number of qualified surgeons. Some seem to have questionable ethics. The manufacturers of Alloderm and Belladerm do not endorse this use of their product. I am not sure of PMMA' I would need to learn more. Soma, best of luck to you bud. My only concern is that yours looks great already. Just be careful with what I believe to be a great outcome thus far! So it is a newer surgery. Many different styles and techniques. I do not think it will ever be as widespread as a breast job because of women being more concerned with asthetic beauty than men (on average'always exceptions). That said I think the procedure is here to stay and will improve over time. Dr. Rosenthall's techniques have improved dramatically over the six years I have known him. They were pretty good the first go round to me. But compared to others I had seen I thought he was excellent. Before and really good now. Do I expect any of these guys to hold your hand and connect with you? To empathize with you and talk about the cause of your seeking the procedure? No. They do this procedure to make money and they become somewhat robotic/apathetic on the people side of the business. Maybe not everyone'just my experience. That said'if you need to speak with Dr. Rosenthall and he does not think you are trying to complain or be a problem he is very very accessible. You can call him on his cell and get right to him many times. So I was about 4' Flaccid and super Flaccid/cold less than that. Somewhat excited I was 5'. Rock hard I was 5.75'. Girth'darn I do not remember'4.25'- 4.5' Flaccid and 4.5' ' 4.75' Erect. I would say I was average length 45-55th percentile length and 35-45th percentile Girth. Got most girls off with sex. The ones that didn't had self-esteem issues and did not orgasm ever. I can almost tell when I meet a girl how capable she will be. But if a girl was a multiple orgasm girl or very wet, then sometimes I felt the fit was not tight enough. A couple of girls were almost not pleasureable. A couple complained I would go too deep in certain positions, etc. I will say this'most men exaggerate their size . Also, when most girls talk about their boyfriends they say they are a good or above average size. My take? They exaggerate also. Either the ones that are not sure or know it is not true do not speak up and the sample is skewed or the ones that are speaking like the attention they get (it confirms their attractiveness) or they are just in emotional love and like to make their man feel good (good for these girls!). So I had a divorce and then decided to do this. The reality is this is not the time to take on such a decision. Not when you are in emotional pain. So if you are in this position you can still of source go forward, but like a drunk friend you try to help by taking their keys so they do not drink and drive'they will convince you they are FINE. You will convince yourself of the same! But you are not fine if you just went through a lot. Go to one or more sex therapists and discuss your overall situation and bring this up as one item for discussion. If they say NO WAY and voice an opinion'write the opinion off and seek another counselor. You want someone to help you gather facts, understand risks and psychological aspects of the decision, etc. They should be neutral to negative. I think it is careless to just say go do an experimental surgery on a delicate organ. But they should not say not to do it unless they have dealt with it many many many times and have a lot of specialized knowledge. Reading a few articles in a medical journal is not enough. Having a religious or other opion'not valid. So long story short'be sure. Be sure you know about the procedure. Be realistic in your expectations. Go slow. Then, once you are ready go for it if you choose that route and get it over quickly. But pick the right time where it fits nicely in your life (it will never fit perfectly BTW). What should you expect? Is Alloderm better than Belladerm? Does FFT work? Should you get the ligament cut? Will there be retraction? How many complications do take place? What about PMMA? My take and my answers' No procedure is perfect. The doctors and the patients (even if they do not know it) are experimenting and to some degree it is new territory. Wow so much to say. How you will feel. How it will be different from before the surgery. Man I have a lot to share. I personally think FFT is not a good option. Many complications. Absorption problems. Lumps. Feels like sponge. Looks weird (to me). But my hats off to the guys that did it. I considered it. Had I done that I think it would have been a mistake. Also, you cannot go FFT. Go FFT again. Then get Belladerm. Then go PMMA. To some degree your choices limit future choices. Start with PMMA and I think it would be tough to get it all out and go Belladerm. I think you could go Belladerm and then PMMA on top. My thought is keep it as simple as possible. Just doing one procedure type is risky enough. Do I want you to be scared? Yes and No. I do not want to brush over the risks because, compared to a breast job this procedure (to me) is riskier. What is riskier? If you do one procedure and it works great, then 4 years later you have problems and go get Revision and then it ends up fine'is that OK? Depends on the person. If I knew what I would have to go through empotionally and physically I would say do not do it unless you are either really small or really concerned about your size. If you have a 7' penis or above in length and 5' or more in Flaccid Girth skip all procedures. Again just my opinion. At that size you are already getting up there. Yes after a (good) procedure you will have a weapon of mass destruction. But if you go from say 7.5' Erect to 8.5' Erect and from 5.0' in Girth to 5.75 or 6''well you are starting to get really big and some girls may not like it better. If you are 2-3' Flaccid and 3-4' or less Erect and have

Very good post, and I'm basically the target audience for this..you can read my story in "love, lust & vanity" if you want/have the time..but yeah, I'm an emotional mess currently..still I have decided to not make any rash decisions.

I found it a bit difficult to read to be honest.

My first post as I've been reading and trying to make a fair evaluation as to whether I want to move forward with PMMA. Your post is awesome Nomad. It was a lot of work chronicalling your experiences, perceptions, and philosophy. Thanks so much. You have greatly assisted me in my investigation of this risky procedure.

I posted it in 12 pt on accident...sorry the font is small. I asked the moderator (I thought) to increase it if he could.

Fedup,
I understand what you are going through. I will try to read your post when I have time. Hang in there. You started down a path. Like it or not you are now committed to the process. I will get to how I tried to fix things first and why I chose Belladerm in the end. It was NOT an easy choice.
Hang in there. (no pun intended)

Yes it is.

Good post Nomad, I did end up with a pretty good Belladerm result but still had a few issues, mostly because a forward stitch came out within hours of surgery because of a wrap that was too tight...causing too much edema in the forward shaft and glans. That said, it still ended up pretty damn good. I do think there is slight reabsorbtion (less so than allo). Moreover, I think the implanted tissue is susceptible to compressive forces over time (the grip sleeve). This is my subjective opinion based on how my Girth changed (decreased) in the areas under the most pressure during Hanging (and not the other areas, base, at all). However, if you want the length gains you're going to have to hang somehow. I'm foregoing Hanging until all my scar tissue (collagen) has formed after the PMMA. That means I won't start Hanging again until 3 months after my second round, so March. What will I do with all the free time lol~ Miracle, For someone so informed I'm surprised you missed this one. Belladerm is harvested from LIVE donors....it's really what differentiates it from Alloderm-

Wow this is veru good namad1. I actually was going against the lig cut because i heard you would get the same results just Hanging and stretching without it. what are your thoughts on that?

And whoever voted "NO'' are jus idiots.. dont listen to them.

I was under the impression that Belladerm is tissue from live people and Alloderm is from cadaver. No?

New 1 Inch,
Since I do not have experience Hanging without a log cut it is hard for me to say. However, I think I know the answer...you will get far more results with the lig cut. If you think about it it is one less thing preventing it from surrendering to the traction. It also does a lot, immediately and relatively permanently (with a corresponding widening procedure) for Flaccid length.
That's Flaccid. If you get the cut and do not hang you will get Erection length loss IMO. So if you choose to do it..please know in advance that you will do the Hanging routine. If you are prone to skip it or not do it consistently until you get the result you want do not do it!
The results are very custom to the person. That said...what do I think the results are? For an average person 5.25-6.25 I think you will gan 1" in Flaccid length with a log cut and widening procedure. The widening keeps the Flaccid size bigger as well because their is something attached to your penis while it is in a decent Flaccid state (i.e. not your worst, cold water Flaccid state if you know what I mean). The Erect gain will be .5-1.25" on average. If you do the log cut and do not hang I think the average retraction will be .3-.6".
Hope that helps and thanks for voting!

Mustang 2020-
Belladerm vs. Alloderm...you guys can google the manufacturers or the names and read up on it from the source.
But I will answer your question mustang2020...Allo - dead. Bella - live.
Are they the same? In some ways yes in others no.
Allo - more absorption, delivered freeze dried, 1-2mm thick, custom sizes not always available, your graft may be done in more than one piece. slimmer more prone to separating and splitting under acute bending pressure.
Bella- less absorption, delivered refrigerated and does not need hydration, 3+mm thick, custom sizes always available, your graft should/will be done in one piece (5cm x 10cm, 6cm x 12cm, 6 cm x 16mm)thinker less prone to acute drama from bending.
Your doc may chose to layer them. It is his decision. I have read it is extra risky, but that was one doctors opinion. I had one thick sheet done 3-4mm 6cmx16cm). They can trim them down to fit, but cannot stretch them.
Hope that helps!

haha..thicker less prone to bending trama
not thinker less prone to bending dram

Pictures from day 5. I am going to post day 9 pics today also if i get time...
Notice how the vascularity is lower than normal. This will change over time as the graft adheres and vascularizes. Also some welling below head ...this happened last time too. This is already gone down quite a bit and will completely resolve.
This is Flaccid 5" length and 5.5-5.7" Girth.
Notice how well Dr. R did with respect to the graft coming very close to the head. See Soma's pics for a comparative in his 9 months post Belladerm thread. Your result will depend on how many grafts you get and how your Circumcision was done as a child (if Circumcised). If the doctor performed the Circumcision such that Dr. R. can go all the way to the head because there is enough skin, then you will have a result where there is little to know space between the head and the graft. Dr. R can only do as good as the canvas he is given and that has to do with the prior doctor who did your Circumcision. And no Dr. R will h=not be able to look at a picture or even do an in-office consult to determine how yours will look when finished. He kind of needs to get into the actual surgery before he will know how yours will come out.
I hope the photos are helpful to the guys contemplating surgery.