--- title: "Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. - PhalloBoards - Phalloboards" description: "I've been researching for awhile about length surgery and cant make up my mind on who to go to, I have it narrowed down to Dr's... - Page 6" url: "https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/patient-support-group-progress-reports/6695890-ready-to-pull-the-trigger-on-lenth-only.html?start=75" date: "2026-08-07T17:41:08+00:00" language: "en-GB" --- PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement General Forum Doctors Forum Username Password Remember me - [ Forgot your password? ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/reset.html?Itemid=101) - [ Forgot your username? ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/remind.html?Itemid=101) - [ Create an account ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) # TOPIC: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1282863146](#1282863146) - **[nohidingstyle](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2989668-nohidingstyle.html "View nohidingstyle's Profile")** - [![nohidingstyle's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2989668-nohidingstyle.html "View nohidingstyle's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2989668-nohidingstyle.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 328 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2989668) Yknow, I would measure more frequently if I were you. Erection length is highly variable within a range. You want more frequent data to filter out the noise. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1282877926](#1282877926) - **[Bullsnake](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile")** - [![Bullsnake's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 67 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2997256) I think if I measure too often I introduce the noise, I know there are some days that my eq is better than others, I usually edge and then take the reading. Dwd I am going in to my doc in about a month and am going to ask about using clomid and adex. I hope he's up on it and if not maybe he can get with it. As far as gains go, I got 1/2 Inch newbie gain last year before the lig cut. since the lig cut I've only gotten 1/8 to 1/4 BPEL. My flacid seems to have gained about an Inch but I still turtle to within 1/2 Inch pre cut. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1282888299](#1282888299) - **[sfdude](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2106521-sfdude.html "View sfdude's Profile")** - [![sfdude's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2106521-sfdude.html "View sfdude's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2106521-sfdude.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 40 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2106521) Sounds pretty good for only four months post surgery! For me, an additional 1/4 Inch BPEL and additional 1 Inch Flaccid would be enough to call the surgery results "GOOD", maybe a B grade. What do you think? Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1282912918](#1282912918) - **[Bullsnake](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile")** - [![Bullsnake's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 67 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2997256) Maybe for you but I wouldn't be happy if this is all I got. besides, i think if i stopped all pe I would loose my gains. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1282918279](#1282918279) - **[Bullsnake](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile")** - [![Bullsnake's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 67 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2997256) Bumped up to 27.5lbs. dont be impressed by this cause its not a weight lifting contest, its just what i have adapted to. I would rather only use 10lbs if thats all it took. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1282918420](#1282918420) - **[Padric](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1736738-padric.html "View Padric's Profile")** - [![Padric's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1736738-padric.html "View Padric's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1736738-padric.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 62 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1736738) I am at 15lbs. 2 1/2 hours day. Don't feel ready to go up yet. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1282918461](#1282918461) - **[Bullsnake](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile")** - [![Bullsnake's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 67 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2997256) > Padric wrote: I am at 15lbs. 2 1/2 hours day. Don't feel ready to go up yet. Yes, if your getting fatigued there is no reason to go up. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1283019859](#1283019859) - **[Bullsnake](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile")** - [![Bullsnake's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 67 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2997256) Time for measurements Boom! Im up another 1/8 Inch to 6-3/4 BPEL maybe even a tad more! Girth is the same 5-1/8 mseg, I think my base might be up along with nbpel but I was so stoked about the gain that I forgot to get those measurements, I'll add em in later Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1283020072](#1283020072) - **[Padric](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1736738-padric.html "View Padric's Profile")** - [![Padric's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1736738-padric.html "View Padric's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1736738-padric.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 62 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1736738) Awesome Bullsnake! Congrats. That is great for you and an inspiration to us fellow stretchers! I have noticed some softening in my scar tissue at the base and I am longer Flaccid. Not sure about the EL. I think the Vit E and Serracor may be helping. It has taken me a long time to learn to wrap correctly too. I think I have finally learned how to consistently avoid glans blisters'(the worst!) Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1283020147](#1283020147) - **[messageman](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1722700-messageman.html "View messageman's Profile")** - [![messageman's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar1722700.jpg?1309009799)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1722700-messageman.html "View messageman's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1722700-messageman.html) - Moderator - ![Moderator](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rankmod.gif) - Posts: 738 - Thanks: 10 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1722700) Congrats Bullsnake Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1283031303](#1283031303) - **[Bullsnake](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile")** - [![Bullsnake's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 67 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2997256) Thanx guys! Padric what are you using for a Hanger? I get no blisters at all. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1283031315](#1283031315) - **[Bullsnake](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile")** - [![Bullsnake's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 67 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2997256) OH hey, just for the record, my EQ is crazy right now!, It seems when I switched angles and went to straight up my EQ went up. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1283034546](#1283034546) - **[sfdude](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2106521-sfdude.html "View sfdude's Profile")** - [![sfdude's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2106521-sfdude.html "View sfdude's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2106521-sfdude.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 40 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2106521) Bullsnake, what is your routine now? Hanging, extender, etc.? How many minutes and at what angles? Typically, the most gains are straight down (BTC), but I wonder what the approach should be after the ligs are cut. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1283035100](#1283035100) - **[Dance\_With\_Dragons](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2037276-dance-with-dragons.html "View Dance_With_Dragons's Profile")** - [![Dance_With_Dragons's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2037276-dance-with-dragons.html "View Dance_With_Dragons's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2037276-dance-with-dragons.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 291 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2037276) That is awesome; glad it's coming along! Making gains is a wonderful feeling, I never really believed it was possible. Congratulatiins. Are you planning on Girth enhancement, and if so what, and what is your length goal before you pull the trigger? Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Ready to pull the trigger on lenth only. 12 years 2 months ago [\#1283035914](#1283035914) - **[Bullsnake](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile")** - [![Bullsnake's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html "View Bullsnake's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2997256-bullsnake.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 67 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2997256) DWD, my length goal is 8 inches, not sure If I'll get that el but hopefully BPEL, I already had the lig cut back in January if thats what you meant by pulling the trigger. As for Girth enhancement I plan on PMMA after I reach my goal but maybe not, If I find my Girth increases with the length I may just leave it alone, It seems the base definitely increases with length, the inner penis being pulled out seems to be larger. sfdude, My routien is hang for two 1 hr sessions, 1 in the am and 1 in the pm. during the day I try to wear my all day stretcher which consists of a pulley retractor attached to my ankle, I'll wear it anywhere from 3 to 8 hrs a day. I think I get a better stretch with my extender but that thing is a pain in the ass to wear. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzY2OTU4OTAtcmVhZHktdG8tcHVsbC10aGUtdHJpZ2dlci1vbi1sZW50aC1vbmx5Lmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD03NQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. 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