--- title: "Sizemic's PE and PMMA log - PhalloBoards - Phalloboards" description: "This is a continuation of my previous log on the old site found here:... - Page 16" url: "https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/patient-support-group-progress-reports/5379825-sizemics-pe-and-pmma-log.html?start=225" date: "2026-08-06T12:10:54+00:00" language: "en-GB" --- PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement General Forum Doctors Forum Username Password Remember me - [ Forgot your password? ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/reset.html?Itemid=101) - [ Forgot your username? ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/remind.html?Itemid=101) - [ Create an account ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) # TOPIC: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270314660](#1270314660) - **[YardStick](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1725898-yardstick.html "View YardStick's Profile")** - [![YardStick's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1725898-yardstick.html "View YardStick's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1725898-yardstick.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 21 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1725898) It's official- Miracle7 has Sizemic beat for the best Avatar..! haha Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270321876](#1270321876) - **[gerryc](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1724938-gerryc.html "View gerryc's Profile")** - [![gerryc's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1724938-gerryc.html "View gerryc's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1724938-gerryc.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 44 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1724938) Sizemic & Beta Have only seen the one picture that i believe shows an uncut before and after PMMA by Dr C. The Picture is on his website and it looked ok. Also talked to Wade and he said uncut guys look very natural with PMMA. [ web.me.com/drcasavantes/GirthEnhancement/Picture\_Gallery.html#0](http://web.me.com/drcasavantes/GirthEnhancement/Picture_Gallery.html#0) Must mention that i dont know if the amount of foreskin in the pic is average, as personally i have alot more foreskin and don't know if that would affect the outcome. Did you see other before and afters whilst at the clinic Sizemic. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270329729](#1270329729) - **[Sizemic](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile")** - [![Sizemic's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 460 - Thanks: 0 - - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1715817) Gerry, that guy looks cut to me. I feel like you can see his circ scar. Regardless, I have yet to see a good result from an uncut penis. That doesn't mean there aren't any out there. Best bet is to email Dr. C's office asking for pics, specifically of uncut guys. I didn't see any pics while at the office... but I didn't ask to see any either. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270330776](#1270330776) - **[beta](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1738759-beta.html "View beta's Profile")** - [![beta's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1738759-beta.html "View beta's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1738759-beta.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 51 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1738759) sizemic is that because you haven't seen any results? or is there someone here uncut who went though with PMMA? Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270331743](#1270331743) - **[Sizemic](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile")** - [![Sizemic's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 460 - Thanks: 0 - - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1715817) capitalpe.blogspot.com Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270332112](#1270332112) - **[Sizemic](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile")** - [![Sizemic's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 460 - Thanks: 0 - - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1715817) Mind you he had a unique scenario involving one small PMMA procedure one day and another one the next because he wasnt quite pleased. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270332566](#1270332566) - **[beta](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1738759-beta.html "View beta's Profile")** - [![beta's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1738759-beta.html "View beta's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1738759-beta.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 51 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1738759) wow, thanks for the link. I wonder how much of that outcome was due to not being circumsized and how much of it was due to back to back procedures. Gonna shoot Dr. C an email and see what he says about it. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270432746](#1270432746) - **[Sizemic](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile")** - [![Sizemic's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 460 - Thanks: 0 - - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1715817) 5 WEEKS Post PMMA Round 3 - Comparison shot Wow! I can't believe how thin I used to be... I haven't looked at old pics in a long time. Here is a nifty comparison shot. Edit: Looks like site is having picture issues... I'll upload it to my blog And another: Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270432860](#1270432860) - **[Sizemic](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile")** - [![Sizemic's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 460 - Thanks: 0 - - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1715817) Now do you guys believe me that my head is still 4.5" Girth? haha It is worth noting the change in the base... Dr. C and Wade actually injected a fair amount of PMMA into the base to make the shaft appear more natural in its connection to the base. Honestly guys... 6" Girth is plenty (I am 6.5" base Girth). Most girls have issues until they get warmed up. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270433320](#1270433320) - **[stillwantmore](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1770881-stillwantmore.html "View stillwantmore's Profile")** - [![stillwantmore's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1770881-stillwantmore.html "View stillwantmore's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1770881-stillwantmore.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 53 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1770881) Cool man, hope the long term prognosis works out well. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270436569](#1270436569) - **[Skeptical\_One](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1704847-skeptical-one.html "View Skeptical_One's Profile")** - [![Skeptical_One's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar1704847.png?1781856569)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1704847-skeptical-one.html "View Skeptical_One's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1704847-skeptical-one.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 4979 - Thanks: 613 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1704847) Sizemic, a truly remarkable difference! Dr. C did a phenomenal job with your unit! Great comparison shots too man, your contributions to the forum have been extremely invaluable and greatly appreciated! Would you say you are done with PMMA at this point (pardon me if you have already stated it previously in this thread)? Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270437105](#1270437105) - **[Sizemic](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile")** - [![Sizemic's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 460 - Thanks: 0 - - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1715817) Thanks stillwantmore, I agree... I definitely hope it works out well! @S.O. Yes for now I am done with PMMA. I want to give it some time to settle down over the next half a year or so before I decide if any touch-ups are needed or if there are areas of concern. There is one area on the left hand side around the circ-scar that sticks out a little bit... but it doesn't bother me at all and I am in no rush to get it looked at. I just have to keep telling myself that 6" is BIG... seeing permanent Girth gains like this is easy to get addicted to... Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270437151](#1270437151) - **[Sizemic](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile")** - [![Sizemic's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html "View Sizemic's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1715817-sizemic.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 460 - Thanks: 0 - - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1715817) 5 Weeks Post Round 3 PMMA Flaccid Shots can be found here (too lazy to upload right now) [ sizemic.blogspot.com/2011/09/5-weeks-post-pmma-round-3.html](http://sizemic.blogspot.com/2011/09/5-weeks-post-pmma-round-3.html) Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270437459](#1270437459) - **[Skeptical\_One](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1704847-skeptical-one.html "View Skeptical_One's Profile")** - [![Skeptical_One's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar1704847.png?1781856569)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1704847-skeptical-one.html "View Skeptical_One's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1704847-skeptical-one.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 4979 - Thanks: 613 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1704847) 6" is certainly huge. And with your length, your overall volume puts you at an almost "guaranteed bigger than anyone else in the __fill_in_the_blank__" (i.e. bar, club, etc). I notice what you mean about that slight ridge on the left... to me it's only obvious since I know you've already undergone PMMA, but if the ladies aren't saying anything, then waiting out a bit for the stuff to settle is a great idea! Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9nZW5lcmFsLWZvcnVtL3BhdGllbnQtc3VwcG9ydC1ncm91cC1wcm9ncmVzcy1yZXBvcnRzLzUzNzk4MjUtc2l6ZW1pY3MtcGUtYW5kLXBtbWEtbG9nLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0yMjU=) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Sizemic's PE and PMMA log 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270438413](#1270438413) - **[newbie415](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1776877-newbie415.html "View newbie415's Profile")** - [![newbie415's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1776877-newbie415.html "View newbie415's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1776877-newbie415.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 30 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1776877) @Sizemic Like everybody has stated before, thanks for having such a detailed history of your progress. It's highly appreciated. Let me add on to everybody else with the congrats. The before and after picture really puts it into perspective. I really hope going forward there are no complications. So good luck with that. I do hope even though you feel like you're done with PMMA that you do still come on with updates as well as your answers and opinions to other's thoughts and questions. I will definitely like to see how your post PMMA years come about. I never cared to have Girth enhancement but I must say PMMA is really tempting barring any serious future complications. I'm more focused on lengthening at the moment before any type of Girth enhancement so with that it begs me to ask you a few questions. The 5 years of manual PE, was that on and off or consistent? I know you said you were on Thunders, do you have a link to some of the routines you did or certain exercises, stretching, or Hanging that you focused mostly on. Also did any of the PE affect your Girth in the process or did it stay the same. Now after having PMMA do you know if you can still do PE? Obviously I'm talking after weeks or months of recovery, whichever the Dr. recommends. Regardless I will do lengthening surgery but I know I still will need to do manual PE after that which is fine. Whatever I get is what I get. I'm just trying to figure who I exactly will go with and then after a year or 2 of manual PE I will definitely do PMMA so this thread and future post from you are invaluable. PS for anybody who knows: I also wonder why if sizemic had such great results with greater cc that they recommend less now... and what is the difference between newplastic and artefill? 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