TOPIC: PMMA Ninja Turtle - Retraction Problems for GROWERS

@HC
I will be in contact with Wade shortly to discuss my concerns which include the palpability and unnatural texture of the 30% PMMA. I will let you know what he has to offer afterwards. I imagine that the doctor can soften hardened areas using the cannula to break up clusters of beads and then cover with 10% to mask the artificial feel of the underlying product. Either way, no more 30% for this man. 10% all the way.

When I turtle hard, my Flaccid is similar to HC's, although this effect (Turtling) does not happen nearly as often as before I had PMMA. I've contemplated whether or not having a very mild "buried penis" (a topic I learned about through my chats with Hoddle) could be contributing to this pig-in-the-blanket & small Flaccid effect, and I will have it addressed in the future. Maybe a combination of some sort of "tacking" and/or lipo, and manual PE may improve my Flaccid, since I will probably not undergo lengthening surgery. I will say, however, that the pig-in-the-blanket look sure as hell beats my pre-PMMA Flaccid any day of the week.

As for now, I've conceded well in advance the risk that my Flaccid may occasionally appear as a pig-in-the-blanket, and having smaller-than-average glans lends my penis to that aesthetic.

I'm wondering if there is any effective treatment behind mitigating/blocking the physiological mechanism that makes a segment of men growers/turtlers. Maybe some kind of botox-like product? Or maybe, as I mentioned previously, a combination of tacking, lipo, manual PE, and in HC's case, even lengthening (which I probably wont do). I'm all ears and will continue following this thread.

True, going into it at 4.5" EG if I was told I'd get 5.5" EG and that was the limit I would have been happy with that. I remember pumping that big and thinking it was huge. Another issue is that there are other Doc's like Dr. N who do 30% only with big sessions. I think a lot of people here pointed to Dr. N's work as evidence that its ok for Dr. C to do the same type stuff. I agree though, if he was more stern in keeping to his original approach (enhancement vs. pure enlargement) there would be less issues here.

miracle7.5x6 wrote: @HC
I will be in contact with Wade shortly to discuss my concerns which include the palpability and unnatural texture of the 30% PMMA. I will let you know what he has to offer afterwards. I imagine that the doctor can soften hardened areas using the cannula to break up clusters of beads and then cover with 10% to mask the artificial feel of the underlying product. Either way, no more 30% for this man. 10% all the way.

Hi Miracle,


It is good to see an intermittent ADMINISTRATOR of this forum and current MODERATOR take up these issues with Doctor Luis Casavantes. He is a very responsible individual and he shall surely take to addressing these issues and our concerns, integrating any knowledge thus derived into his treatment orientations.


Aside from clumps which were detectable, in my first two sessions I had no PMMA that was detectible to the touch (my personal assessment of shaft texture) either with 10% New Plastic aka Linnea-Safe or with 20% Metacryl (this however did clump). The 30% Linnea-Safe gives a general impression - regularly and evenly spread on the upper end of the shaft - similar to my previous rubbery clumps, which were only in certain areas. The rubbery feel is all around the circumference of the shaft, and I have noticed that it has slightly diminished over six months: it was at its hardest one month after injection.


I guess the similarity between the texture of clumps and higher concentrations of PMMA makes sense. Clumps are a clustering of PMMA, making the localized concentration in one small area greater than it ought to be, had it been properly dispersed around the entire surface of the shaft. Hence, the greater the concentration, the more rubbery the tactile impression. As a consequence, your unit feels more artificially enhanced and less natural, the more plastic beads are present in proportion to the collagen, almost giving the impression of a buried plastic dildo.


So I agree that even if it winds up costing more with extra sessions and although one must wait longer to achieve a desired final result, 10% all the way would be the way I would proceed if I were to do so again. My PERFECT 1st session results with 10% lulled me into too much confidence about PMMA in any concentration. Had I known that it would be less natural to the touch, I would have stayed away from the higher concentration levels. And I concur that our collective experience here seems to currently point towards the neighborhood of a 15% concentration to give gains while retaining a perfectly "original" feel.


Thanks for taking such concerns to Tijuana and hopefully Dr C will have a few weeks to consider what remedies can be brought to guys with issues like mine, so that when I arrive he already has an idea of what might be done during a follow-up session?


HC

Hi Ten Inch Goal,

I hope you know that you're already at the length limit of what most women can take? More length and you'll start getting complaints and having ladies switch from smiles to frowns? Just a thought in passing... in case you aren't married to a woman with a sideways cervix who can handle any length.

Like Skeptical One, I still prefer this look to what I had before when Turtling: a unit which could be as small as one Inch long and maybe two inches Girth? Yikes! So we must remember that all this is relative. Some growers can get very small. Some which are modest sized when Turtling can get way big, like Essex who just joined and goes from 3 inches to 8! Wow.

It isn't very good looking, and certainly doesn't look natural when it forms a ball. I do think that there ought to be a solution to this effect. Smartman speaks of tacking to one's pelvis through surgical intervention, which leaves scars at the top of one's base. I don't really want to go this way if preventable.

Another way might be to see if Dr C can widen the base with enough Girth that it holds the rest of the PMMA sheath up against the pelvis, so it won't form a ball lumping down onto the glans?

This seems to be the least invasive and most promising path to investigate, and I shall be asking him in early June if this can be envisaged as a solution. The rather rigid 30% PMMA collagen has softened some since last September (8 months since round 3) and a only 3 or 4 applications of 75% DMSO in Aloe Vera gel helped further soften the tissues. So artificial rigidity to the touch is something which can be resolved, at least partially.

That leaves the "gravity effect" of thick PMMA sliding down one's shaft, which makes for a tip heavy Flaccid which, when Turtling, turns into a ball if your glans isn't large. I hope a solution is on the horizon, or I will be having to inject daily very precisely dosed sub-cutaneous injections of either Melanotan-II or its non-tanning derivate Bremelanotide PT-141, to always retain a semi-Flaccid condition and never turtle.

Regarding your question as to what percentage concentrations of PMMA you should have done, this isn't something which I can recommend at this time. I think that Dr C will be reviewing shortly his preferred protocol, he is discussing this with our moderator Miracle 7.5x6 and we shall get a far better idea of what the best way to proceed is from them!

Cheers,

HC

Hello, this is my first time posting. Thank you everyone for providing a community for this. In regards to this particular matter, its definitely seems like sizemic is right. Dr. C is catering to demand. My thought is that after some point, a large enough gain would likely produce the pig in a blanket effect for many people. The question is at what increase would likely cause this? I would imagine .5 to .75 inches is the max for many.

@HC
You mentioned that this was not an issue until the 3rd session. What kind of increase did you get for the first two sessions if you don't mind restating? This appears to be a limit for you at least, unless the 30% is the sole culprit.

Has anyone else found that after session one or two, they suddenly had the pig in a blanket effect?

@jlmb

28CCs is a massive amount of PMMA in a single round. I expect that you wanted to do a "one stop shopping" trip to Tijuana? You probably got enough Girth to stick with that single session too. I figure that you won't have too bad a problem when retracting, because that isn't so thick of a layer from just one session, even if well loaded with product. I didn't get a problem until the 3rd session with 30%. Before that, after round 1 with 10% and round 2 with 20%, I had no sausage in a blanket aesthetics. It was only round 3 with 30% that gave me this unaesthetic result when retracting.


@Mustang2020,

Thanks for your advice. I figured that maybe it would have to get way bigger, yet my glans is so much smaller than the shaft that even way wider may not look too ugly. Also, it could maybe only take an extra half Inch in diameter for the glans edges to hold back the fairly rigid layer of collagen. It only hangs over the glans due to gravity, so it might not take that much opposing force of resistance to keep the sleeve propped up?

Regarding the anchoring of the PMMA, I already notice that the collagen growth does expand as is, so that even if the base was widened outwards, to prevent the entire encasing of PMMA to slip downwards when Flaccid, it would probably still stretch fine when Erect?

I think my issue with the base is that right before getting my first round, I had been applying DHT cream and it had swollen up my base quite a lot. One year later the base got a good bit thinner, possibly due to stopping that treatment. I wanted to get PMMA there to replenish it, but my 2nd round backfired due to extreme allergic swelling and I didn't get any. My 3rd round also gave nothing at the base, because I failed to massage the PMMA downwards (dumb me, I didn't know that it would migrate towards the tip !!!).

So I am hoping that getting a good quantity of 10% at the base, maybe keeping a tight bandage wrapped from mid-shaft to the glans during the first night, so it won't migrate there, may give me both that needed thickness near the pelvis plus hold the rest of the PMMA in place to prevent the Ninja Turtle from hiding it's head in the PMMA shell?

You are right that I have no functional problem. It is only visual, but it is the aesthetic I find the most displeasing of anything I've seen other than that guy on video who took out his blob which is so siliconed that it would take a wheelbarrow to move it.

The ladies really love my unit Erect, no complaints, quite to the contrary. Thanks to Dr C I am a totally different guy, moving from being a baby boy toy to an estimable Hunk Chunk. So my handle fulfilled its promise, as I just got off the phone with a girl dying to swallow me whole. Never did a girl tell me this before Dr C.

For reference, look at the first photo posted of me retracting. Imagine the tip, at its width, leading right up to the base at its teensy diameter. That is what my retractions looked like before: baby sized... I remember the most extreme manifestation of this right before round 2, it retracted to less than the size of my thumb !

Also, Dr C really did an incredible job of smoothing out what were possibly the worst clumps they've ever seen. It was a mammoth task for them to get it all fixed, and they courageously spent hours working away without respite. The next morning you can imagine how heartily I thanked them. My current issue is minor and only occurs when fully retracted. Aside from a bit too spongy a feel, my unit is quite natural except for being too short for the Girth.

I am very happy with my results and, aside from wanting a thicker base to again have it taper, to reach perfection I'd dream of a thin coating of 10% for a more natural at first touch, along with a glans volume increase and some extra length, if Hanging weights can work.

In June I will ask Dr C for a botox shot to keep it from retracting as much. If it works I can hit the nude beaches proud like last summer. And also be less shy around new girls. If the botox doesn't work I'll inject myself with carefully micro-dosed PT141, so that it stays at at all times semi-Erect.

Yesterday I avoided going all the way with a new girl who is stunning, man, she was gorgeous and told me she was all systems go. But I was sure that if she saw my "stuffed olive" standing in for a Phallus, she'd immediately know it's an artificial Dick - - I told her of my girlfriend who had slept with 200 men. She seemed unimpressed. When I asked her if she thought that was a lot, she replied "That depends, over how many years?"...

It's ironic that I now "have the stuff", and still shy away from girls. This time not because it is way too small, but because now it is pretty darn weird looking at rest. I could sense she'd be wise to me, and I'm not just imagining this: in January I got turned down by a cute latina girl in Miami, who griped at me sarcastically: "You are lying! You're uncut!" The solution would be to relax and get excited, but when you have a problem, you get blocked and it retracts more!

HC

Thank God I only received 7cc's of 30%. I couldn't imagine having a full session! It'd be akin to walking with a brick in your pants.

I totally agree with you Hoddle and Miracle the new collagen post- 30% conc. feels firm and rough so it will be better to use a lower conc. i.e. between 10%-20% .

If we look at the korean doctors and what they use for a conc. :-

- Only 20% PMMA Artecoll mixed with 70% crossed-linked dextran (LIPEN-10) or Lipen-8 for the shaft .

- But for the Glans they use only 15% PMMA Artecoll mixed with 85% crossed-linked dextran (LIPEN-P). N.B. they could easily make the 10% for the glans but they didn't I am sure they found that the 15% gives a better gain and esthetic result for the glans.

So I think these doctors tried many different conc.s of PMMA for the shaft and the glans and I assume they found the right one for each.

Interesting thought HC. I always enjoy your well formulated posts.
I wouldn't care much about your Flaccid appearance, at least its big and fat when its ready to do the work =]. I have myself am a Grower which is close to 8" long BPEL, but sometimes Flaccid it looks like a baby's penis due to Turtling (cone formed with smaller glans) - tends to shrink more than people with reverse cone shape. I used to be concerned about it all the time but its just not worth it.

Does it really feel artificial? It looks very real to me at least. Are you advocating that the best approach would have been to first do 20% 1-2 sessions then finish with a 10%?

Hi Skeptical One,


Thanks for sharing your musings about this problem we both share in common. You went for thicker gains than me at first, so you pretty much beat me to the punch, but I seem to have caught up with you at least in terms of this undesired effect LOL. You can count on me to go the extra mile to find a solution as quickly as possible, because it is important that we all here find some answers to what ought to be both preventable and curable.


I don't know just how much of a buried penis syndrome we might have, but I also turtle hard, my world record was a 1" Flaccid just prior to my 2nd PMMA Session, as if my unit knew the hardship that was awaiting it. Or possibly this was a sign that my unit was going to react very violently to that PMMA session, causing the extreme swelling that made the PMMA clump in large clusters?


After viewing that extremely distasteful video that Hoddle linked to, showing a poor fellow's penis get butchered, I would really prefer avoiding having my tool "tacked" to the pelvis. I wish there were a less invasive method of getting the PMMA sheath to stick to the base. Maybe there is. If not I will still very much hesitate to get tacking done, because I went to great lengths to avoid pelvic scars, going to Russia for scrotal ligament cuts. Plus that's yet more penile trauma we can all wish to avoid.


It sure would be nice to find a technical workaround for penis retraction. However, it is something which can afflict anyone, apparently. There are cases of severe retraction for "reasons unknown" that practically bury one's unit inside the pelvis. What causes this has not yet been properly assessed or explained by medical science, and some even believe it is magic:


Penis Snatcher Strikes Fear with Handshake


I remain convinced that it might take several methods in conjuction to come to grips with this problem. One is to improve the suppleness of any additional collagen growth, another to ensure it is somehow anchored to the base, manual PE stretching of tissues, finding a way to encourage some Flaccid bloodflow, and finally perhaps a medication to make one's unit less limp? I am thinking of tiny daily doses of Melanotan-II for myself, injected each morning, in order to provide a very slight semi-Flaccid. That way I might better survive the nude beach, while taking care that it isn't so much as to give me an equally embarrassing woody.


Cheers,


Hunk Chunk

Hi HC; I see what you mean about the base being smaller than mid shaft. Dr C can fix that of course. May be take a cailas one day before your next op and then another one two to three days post op. Then you will have a semi Erection for almost 4-5 days and the PMMA beads will settle down. I did that last time and it worked for me, but I do still have some dips and little Balls of PMMA but it is not too bad. On my next corrective round I hope Dr C will resolve most of these problems.

there is also a cialas for daily use , I think. If you know you are going to have a girl soon or going to a nude beach/area, take a pill as needed....

Dude, how can you say NO to a gorgeous girl? you should be as hard as a baseball bat before she sees it, Or turn down the lights before you get going, and by the time you are touching each other, you will be Erect....LOL!

Its been about 7-8 months since R1, and I received 28cc mostly 20%.

As I said before, my problem is really only there when prompted. I wasn't really a complete shower before, I just was capable of a lot of shrinkage situationally, like cold, bored, working out, etc. Most of the time it would be very normal. Which is why now, its mostly not a problem, just when I sit and hold it above my legs, or if I am wearing tight underwear. I'm just afraid with more and more PMMA the variety of siituations its an issue will increasee

Hi jlmb,

I see that this is a situation that any number of GROWERS who tend to turtle might have with PMMA. How long has it been since your first PMMA session, and what percentage did you have injected? Did he taper it or make is cylindrical with just one percentage used?

I would recommend you hold off for a few weeks before round two until we can sort out how Dr C can best answer this very legitimate preoccupation. It isn't anything medically serious, as nobody ever died of the tennis ball look, but we might die of shame when pointed at and laughed at by bevies of pretty ladies calling us "Bubble Dick!" LOL.

In another thread in this forum I am pursuing another avenue to possibly resolve this issue, by enlarging the glans in Korea to prevent it from burying in deep inside a PMMA sheath when retracting? In this case it would probably push the outer layer back up towards the pelvis when retracting, the ridge of the glans pressing against the edge of the PMMA layer and hopefully pressing it up along the shaft instead of outwards around the glans.

I bet that guys tend to notice more than woman whether a unit is original or not. Possibly because the focus is more "dickcentric" and also because they've always had their own for comparison purposes. I've noticed that woman don't really know what a normal unit should look like, and they are less into them "except when in use" LOL.

Hunk Chunk

HunkChunk wrote:


Issues:

- would it even break down the collagen at all?

- could it damage deeper functional tissues inside the shaft?

- can it be carried by the bloodstream and cause damage elsewhere?
* Note: there is a lot of bloodflow down there...

- reducing the collagen won't remove the PMMA beads, hence useless?





HC

I want to stress I'm not advocating the use of DMSO, as I'm not an expert and don't want to encourage anyone to do anything that is potentially harmful. However, I've long suspected that it could be of benefit to guys who have issues with PMMA.

I've used it for several months at a time and never had any issues. So from my own experience and many guys on Thundersplace etc, it does seem safe if used responsibly (ie clean etc). But, again I stress I'm not advocating it or claiming I know for sure it's safe. I'm just saying that I have no worries about using it on myself and I'm the kind of guy that freaks out about possible side effects.

In my experience it doesn't seem to dissolve scar tissue, as others have suggested, but it without doubt significantly softened it, which resulted the scar becoming much flatter and more natural feeling.

As regards PMMA, I think there is the possibility that it would soften the surrounding collagen and thus make massaging and re-moulding much more effective. You'd need to try it for a month at least and do it twice a day. By massaging the soft PMMA you should be changing the distribution of the beads, which I believe is responsible for the clumping.


By the way, tacking can be done without degloving the penis. In the video the penis was degloved to insert the PLGA scaffolds, so they did the taking like that. But