--- title: "Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA - PhalloBoards - Phalloboards" description: "Hi guys, So I am really considering booking in an appointment with Dr N this summer. I have had HA with Dr Horn in london and messaged him (his assistant,..." url: "https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/general-phalloplasty-discussion-archive/8562386-spoke-to-dr-horn-about-pmma.html" date: "2026-08-06T16:58:25+00:00" language: "en-GB" --- PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement General Forum Doctors Forum Username Password Remember me - [ Forgot your password? ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/reset.html?Itemid=101) - [ Forgot your username? ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/remind.html?Itemid=101) - [ Create an account ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) # TOPIC: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296238635](#1296238635) - **[sexy\_beast](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4496448-sexy-beast.html "View sexy_beast's Profile")** - [![sexy_beast's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4496448-sexy-beast.html "View sexy_beast's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4496448-sexy-beast.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 250 - Thanks: 14 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4496448) regardless of what he said if u guys r in europe, canada or australia, i think your best bet is Ellanse. it works 4 years, 3,2 or 1 and is gone if u like or fill it back up. there r products out there made for the face that r permanent but our philosophy is "permanent procedures can give u permanent problems" that being said it can really depend on your genetics so we have no way of knowing that a permanent procedure will work best for u until after. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296239158](#1296239158) - **[mediatps](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile")** - [![mediatps's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 147 - Thanks: 1 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4949269) I agree completely. It's through reading all the patients progress reports on here that has actually given me confidence in this procedure. I actually don't have that many concerns about the short term problems of PMMA, they seem to be mainly cosmetic. I've lived with some slight aesthetic deformations from the HA and it really hasn't bothered me or been noticed even by my ex girlfriend who spent a lot of time playing with my Dick. My concern is the long term effects. What happens 20 years down the line? Does the structure hold up, will it start to brake apart? Etc etc This forum is a brilliant resource and you're right, doctors should completely take note of it. How many years with PMMA has the longest running member been going for? It would be good to hear more about gradual changes in time over years rather than months. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296240461](#1296240461) - **[Hunkydory01](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4520710-hunkydory01.html "View Hunkydory01's Profile")** - [![Hunkydory01's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4520710-hunkydory01.html "View Hunkydory01's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4520710-hunkydory01.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 540 - Thanks: 6 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4520710) The weirdest thing about that response is the combination of how seriously bad PMMA is, with "I'll do it for you if you really want it". I wouldn't inject anything into anybody that I thought was seriously bad for them whether they wanted it or not. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296239189](#1296239189) - **[mediatps](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile")** - [![mediatps's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 147 - Thanks: 1 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4949269) Also the reason why Francis wanted me to go to Dr Horn is because he is an actual Penoplasty surgeon, which I guess makes some sense. I agree that experience in the actual procedure counts for a lot though Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296240499](#1296240499) - **[Reklaw](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4324840-reklaw.html "View Reklaw's Profile")** - [![Reklaw's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4324840-reklaw.html "View Reklaw's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4324840-reklaw.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 1361 - Thanks: 3 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4324840) Francis and Dr Horn are grubby little opportunists who know nothing about Phalloplasty. The only Dr's worth going to regardless of what filler you want are Dr Oates, Dr C and Dr N in my opinion. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296247423](#1296247423) - **[Dr\_Oates](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4460953-dr-oates.html "View Dr_Oates's Profile")** - [![Dr_Oates's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar4460953.jpg?1569480001)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4460953-dr-oates.html "View Dr_Oates's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4460953-dr-oates.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 688 - Thanks: 51 - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4460953) > mediatps wrote: Can Ellanse be done in the uk or is that a trip to Australia? I assume Ellanse is available there - but as for anyone doing it, don't know. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296247683](#1296247683) - **[Reklaw](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4324840-reklaw.html "View Reklaw's Profile")** - [![Reklaw's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4324840-reklaw.html "View Reklaw's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4324840-reklaw.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 1361 - Thanks: 3 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4324840) That's a real Shame Dr Oates, I'm so glad we found out about you though and have you procedure as an option. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296247441](#1296247441) - **[Dr\_Oates](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4460953-dr-oates.html "View Dr_Oates's Profile")** - [![Dr_Oates's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar4460953.jpg?1569480001)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4460953-dr-oates.html "View Dr_Oates's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4460953-dr-oates.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 688 - Thanks: 51 - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4460953) Also soon I may have some photos of using Ellanse to cover some nodules from PMMA. But if I don't have them by the 30th of June I may not be able to post and I am not recommitting to a commercial account. SO is putting up prices and actually we don't make enough out of PE vs what we are putting into it. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296240533](#1296240533) - **[naginati](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4881541-naginati.html "View naginati's Profile")** - [![naginati's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4881541-naginati.html "View naginati's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4881541-naginati.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 636 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4881541) > Hunkydory01 wrote: The weirdest thing about that response is the combination of how seriously bad PMMA is if you with "I'll do it for you if you really want it". I wouldn't inject anything into anybody that I thought was seriously bad for them whether they wanted it or not. I translated that as his internal thoughts, 'HA makes much more money for us so I want to put him off PMMA. In the event that I cannot him disuade, however, we'll do the PMMA. Least we make a but of money that way. Cynical? Yes, yes I am. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296239025](#1296239025) - **[hoddle10](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1704891-hoddle10.html "View hoddle10's Profile")** - [![hoddle10's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1704891-hoddle10.html "View hoddle10's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1704891-hoddle10.html) - Moderator - ![Moderator](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rankmod.gif) - Posts: 3120 - Thanks: 50 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1704891) > mediatps wrote: It is also intriguing that Dr Horn may also be able to inject PMMA. What are people's thoughts on that? So Francis has your best interest at ![heart](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/emoticons/heart.png "heart"), but is prepared for Dr Horn to inject you with a filler he has no experience with, that is permanent! Basically it's somehow better in his mind for you to go to Dr Horn who has never done PMMA, using an unnamed brand of PMMA (which is significant as the carriers vary), than it is to fly to Prague and get it done with a Dr who does it all the time. You should ask him why he thinks Dr Horn who has no experience with PMMA is a better choice than Dr N? I've got the feeling that not a single person without a vested interest in Dr Horn, would agree that makes more sense to go to him than Dr N. I think the medical community (the likes of Francis and Dr Horn) needs to learn about PE (especially PMMA) from Phalloboards, not the other way around. I know that sounds like an arrogant thing to say, but I really feel it's true, as never before has there been such an impartial resource for people to follow PE procedures over an extended period of time. Medical studies are worthless in comparison. We've got a shit ton of progress reports by real guys, with photos, talking in detail about their experience with various procedures and often over several years. These should be just as much of a gold mine of information for the medical community as they are for regular guys interested in PE. It frustrates when people dismiss the reality of what we've witnessed on this forum over the last 8 years, as it kind of means we've all wasted out time. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296239545](#1296239545) - **[mediatps](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile")** - [![mediatps's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 147 - Thanks: 1 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4949269) Can Ellanse injections be done in the uk, or is that a trip to Australia? Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296239554](#1296239554) - **[mediatps](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile")** - [![mediatps's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 147 - Thanks: 1 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4949269) > sexy beast wrote: regardless of what he said if u guys r in europe, canada or australia, i think your best bet is Ellanse. it works 4 years, 3,2 or 1 and is gone if u like or fill it back up. there r products out there made for the face that r permanent but our philosophy is "permanent procedures can give u permanent problems" that being said it can really depend on your genetics so we have no way of knowing that a permanent procedure will work best for u until after. Can Ellanse be done in the uk or is that a trip to Australia? Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296244427](#1296244427) - **[chester](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4437325-chester.html "View chester's Profile")** - [![chester's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4437325-chester.html "View chester's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4437325-chester.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 808 - Thanks: 11 - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4437325) > sexy beast wrote: regardless of what he said if u guys r in europe, canada or australia, i think your best bet is Ellanse. it works 4 years, 3,2 or 1 and is gone if u like or fill it back up. Agreed. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296299732](#1296299732) - **[Avanti\_Derma](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4705343-avanti-derma.html "View Avanti_Derma's Profile")** - [![Avanti_Derma's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar4705343.jpg?1569387186)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4705343-avanti-derma.html "View Avanti_Derma's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4705343-avanti-derma.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 229 - Thanks: 92 - - - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4705343) Reference: Read Dr Kim's website or buy his text book on Penoplasty from Amazon. He is the best urologist in Asia and fixes people with funny substances injected into their penises in Thailand etc all the time. [ www.urodoc.co/pmma.htm](https://www.urodoc.co/pmma.htm) Hello guys, It is interesting that somebody uses a crappy website with biased opinions to reference what should be a serious discussion about GE products. That reference is not even grammatically correct, has no censure, and no indexed literature references at all. It is simply somebody's own opinion published in his own website. I can easily respond with a peer-reviewed, scientific publication that includes statistics and methodic observation of more than 700 patients for over 10 years: [ www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(16)30299-5/abstract](http://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(16)30299-5/abstract) Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: Spoke to Dr Horn about PMMA 9 years 1 month ago [\#1296239338](#1296239338) - **[naginati](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4881541-naginati.html "View naginati's Profile")** - [![naginati's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4881541-naginati.html "View naginati's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4881541-naginati.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 636 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4881541) Lots of good points from everyone here. One thing to consider is that, as consumers, we really need competition. This is especially true in Europe. Dr n started somewhere and she will have done so with less experience than Dr Horn. To maximise performance of Dr's and minimise price there must be competition. All dr's are in it for the money. That's not a criticism, we all work for coin. I say go for it. I may for next round. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvODU2MjM4Ni1zcG9rZS10by1kci1ob3JuLWFib3V0LXBtbWEuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0x) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. 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