TOPIC: 125um microspheres and collogen

yes you are correct, i should not be be so eager or think he should respond so fast. forgive me,

can i substitute edta with tween 80 or 20 if i used cmc?

I did find it for you it was written by Prof. Lemperle :-

The smaller the microspheres (to the threshold of phagocytosis),the larger the combined surface area in a given volume and the greater the total amount of new collagen formation.

E.g. :- A microsphere size 100 microns will give you only 56% new collagen.
In the other hand 40 microns will give you 80% new collagen.

escholarship.org/uc/item/45b4s0jb#page-4

holly cow dude. i couldnt have gotten a more precise answer, i greatly greatly thank you smartman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im accualy copying and pasting your answers in a notpad file to save on my pc. DANG GLAD I CAME HERE!

Hi 4johnybravo,

Yes you can use the Tween 80 ( which acts as an emulsifier, which reduce the binding strength, prevent or at least reduce precipitation and increased the viscosity of the carrier ) instead of EDTA with the CMC.

E.g. drug "Lupron" by injection.

Check this esp. in the bottom of this site :-

www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharmaceutical/b.../LUPRON%20DEPOT.html


Another example in "Advil" (as suspension for children) :-

Check also the bottom of this site :-

chealth.canoe.ca/drug_info_details.asp?brand_name_id=1627&rot=4

The last example is used in an eye drop :-

dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?id=75589

thats cool smart man my keyboard is busted so im typing with the on screen key board rite now and it sucks but i will look into that and i will also wright a detailed conversation i had with one of gottfried lamperles relatives stefan lamperle who is and own patens on making pmma spheres smooth on the surface and he gave me his sellphone number and said call anytime. but the main bit of knowledge i got from the phone convo was that surface smoothness is not that important so much as the beads just being round and no smaller than 30um. he said it would be just a tad bit harder fpr the collogen to cover the bead but not by allot he was more concerned that my beads needed to not have particle irregularitys.i am using cospheric.coms' 38-40 um beads it costs 120 bucks for 10 grams.



i found this website forum.liyasoap.com.ua/t410-topic cova beads look smooth sorta but are porous.

4johnybravo wrote: were you at smartman?

Please keep in mind Smartman take's time out of his day to voluntarily offer his vast knowledge & insight into matters pertaining to PMMA (and other topics as well). He's not obliged to respond to a topic quickly, or to respond at all. Should he choose to respond, he will at his convenience.

Dr.Samy told me before that he sells Metacrill you can try to send him an e-mail and ask him about the cost (it could be cheaper), but I really advise you; you should find a doctor who is expert and well-trained in PMMA injection .


N.B. PMMA injection under untrained person can cause disaster (skin Necrosis or even pulmonary embolism --> death ; esp if a sharp needle is used)
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i stop to think about the suspension agent, CMC, its troublesome. yet I've shot underground lab steroids sterilized in an oven. Ive come up with a secondary approach, Most of the testosterone i shoot into my quads is comprised of testosterone cypionate ester powder, USP pharmacy grade grape seed oil, and 0.9% benzyl alcohol to stop and bacteria. now I've been shooting this stuff for 10 yrs and never had a problem, instead of using CMC, why not just suspend the PMMA beads in the USP grapseed oil,add 0.9%benzyl alcohol to the mix, and walla, I'm injecting something that i know has worked for me for 10 yrs... it would cut the need for sterilizing CMC powder which would be 410$, and i would only be left with sterilizing the PMMA powder with E.O.

ARTEFILL uses bovine collogen
metacrill uses CMC,
i might use USP grapeseed oil with 0.9% benzyl alcohol.
thier are prolly 4 other suspention agents that could be used for PMMA. if not more. i think i need to think outside the box on suspention agents.

According to Dr C, he used 30% PMMA on his arms and for his patient's muscles...He never mentioned to me if the size of the spheres were any larger than other concentrations that he uses for the penis...Not much help, but FYI...

So E.O. is the way to go for PMMA, which Ive yet to research ethylene oxide and contact labs that use the gas but, they prolly charge more. I guess its not a good idea to oxidize the PMMA beads, but i need a turn key source for sterilizing my two materials, i was gonna premix cmc with PMMA in 10ml syringes and have them e-beamed, simple, but now if what your saying about chain linking in polyethylene,and how it may cause chain linking in PMMA as well, then I should reconsider e-beam, having to pay one company 410$ to sterilize one thing and another company to sterilize my PMMA in E.O. Any E.O. sterilizing labs you know of that are easy on the wallet? I almost do wanna just risk having my premixed syringes e-beam and risk it.. I know i just sounded stupid saying that, but nutek e-beams other peoples PMMA in syringes already and it just makes me wanna go that way but i wish i knew to what degree does irradiation Cross link in PMMA and to what degree it oxidizes the outer surface of the beads...

I guess if the 500grams of carboxymethylcellulose is in a gas permeable bag then E.O. would sterilize the powder I have.

Smartman, if you HAD to make your own PMMA injecatble filler, and already had 500grams of 38-45um PMMA beads, and had 500grams of Pharmacy USP grade high viscosity Carboxymethylcellulose powder, and had luer to luer transfer adapter and sterile water for injection, needing to mix them all together, would you premix syringes or have each powder sterilized first them mix and have sterilized? E.O. cannot penetrate a prefilled syringe correct? so itas contents must be out in the open on a tray right?

I never thought needing to mix PMMA,CMC,and sterile water into a syringe would be such a hassle but I'm GOING to stick with it till the end, eventually i get this down and have a turnkey process for myself.... if u would like to move this discussion to email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. i got my paypal account up and running...$ two head are better than one.

i wonder, if put in order which would weigh more
1 cubic Inch of muscle,
1 cubic Inch of fat
1cubic Inch of cartilage
1cubic Inch of PMMA covered in collagen and fibrous tissue'

I wonder if PMMA with collagen and fibrous tissue weigh more than fat or muscle, just was wondering if i in total injected over the course of a year 1lb of PMMA, would the collagen plus PMMA and fibrous tissue weigh more than what fat more muscle does or less? would be awesome if its less, because i could put on size but lower weight you see.

next question
if you have a 1cc of 30% "metacrill" for example only 30% of that cc is PMMA, so to make things easier i will scale this question up to ten cc's so we have a 10 cc vial, of that 10 cc vial we have 3cc's that is actually plastic powder, now if you were to try and imagine that the 10 cc vial would magically encapsulate the 3cc's of PMMA micro spheres in the vial with collagen and fibrous tissue, how much would it all together be in the vial? 6cc's with the PMMA microspheres covered in fibrous tissue and collagen? i guess the questions is realistically how much does fibrous tissue and collagen account for? exactly double? a little more than double the PMMA powder or a little less than double?

I have talked to Dr. sammy passy on the phone and via e-mail for his prices and know the amount of PMMA i need is only affordable thru making it myslef, i have somone who will do the injections for me here in the USA, i just need the product, sammy passys prices are too high, far too high, and for whats in metacril i can make the amount i need at a fraction the cost that sammy would sell it to me for..

just a small update, last night I filled a one cc syringe with 30units of 40 micron beads, and 70 units of sterile oil with 0.9 percent benzyl alcohol in it to help bacteria if any should be their, injected into the inner side of my forearm back near my elbow area. I could see that when i added the oil to the powder in the syringe that that the two immediately became homogeneous with NO problem, my only concern is the small amount of benzyl alcohol may harm the beads, like melt or mi shape some of them, but this a small concentration of benzyle alcohol. I am trying at the moment to get ahold of a girl at this lab i know of who has an SEM microscope, i wanna double check the smoothness of the beads, i know the size of the beads is within 95% of 40um, and am told they are smooth, but i wanna see for myself, so I'm going to try and get this girl to let me mail her a small sample of beads to place in the SEM and take some pictures and e-mail me back the results so i can judge for myself if the surface is smooth enough or too rough.

I'm talking to another company right now who also sell these micro spheres and they say that the beads are treated to have smooth surface also so we will see.

one question thoe, is 1 100 micron bead is more than double the size of a 40um bead, and the 100um bead make 56% collogen, and the 40um bead makes 80%collogen, wouldnt the equation be

40um+80%=72um cuase 80% of 40 is 32.
100+56%= 156um total in width 56% of 100 is 156.
isnt the 100mcron bead still bigger? it seems kinda so,
I could see that the 80% collogen that the 40um bead produces would make a PMMA injected muscle more squishy and soft and not as rock hard were the filler was placed, but still overall the larger bead is still larger just with mor fibrous tissue growth around it than collogen?

So "smartman" i have another Q, what is the safest microbial limit not to be exceeded in a substance meant for bodily injection? i know of a lab that is gunna sterilize this powder ill be injecting, they are using e-beam which sosts 400$, and after they sterilize this powder, and have the lab analyse the powder to do a bioburden count, whats the microbial limit? i know USP <71> states that absoloutly zero, but thats if its an FDA product, but medically speaking you can get away with some microbe and bacteria in a very small number per gram of material, is it somthing like 4 or 5 per gram of powder?