--- title: "The treatment of penile retraction - PhalloBoards - Phalloboards" description: "There is a study about using Botox injection in the Dartos muscle which can reduce penile retraction in about 70% of the cases... - Page 2" url: "https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/general-phalloplasty-discussion-archive/5499891-the-treatment-of-penile-retraction.html?start=15" date: "2026-08-06T16:57:20+00:00" language: "en-GB" --- PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement General Forum Doctors Forum Username Password Remember me - [ Forgot your password? ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/reset.html?Itemid=101) - [ Forgot your username? ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/remind.html?Itemid=101) - [ Create an account ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) # TOPIC: The treatment of penile retraction ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1298009770](#1298009770) - **[Venous](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4959465-venous.html "View Venous's Profile")** - [![Venous's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4959465-venous.html "View Venous's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/4959465-venous.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 36 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4959465) > rkcinflorida wrote: I'm going next month for another session with Dr. C, and I had signed up for the scrotal botox as well as the PMMA. It appears this thread hasn't been updated in a while, was wondering if Dr. C was still doing the botox injections into the dartos? I have severe Turtling issues also, has caused a lot of the PMMA at the base of my penis to bunch together to hard areas and when Erect, these get pulled forward exposing gaps in coverage at the base. I'm convinced if I can keep myself from Turtling over the several weeks as the PMMA is settling in that it won't cause this discrepancy. I use the glans stretcher device, but sometimes, like in summer wearing shorts I can't wear it all the time. I hate everytime I have to urinate, or undress to shower like at locker rooms and such I have to pull on my penis to get it to look "normal". Hello, rkc This new session was your 2nd round? How was it? Does the Dr got to fill the gaps and correct their effects is hurtling, as mentioned? Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1271172011](#1271172011) - **[medilook](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1762364-medilook.html "View medilook's Profile")** - [![medilook's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1762364-medilook.html "View medilook's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1762364-medilook.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 167 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1762364) Botox on my scrotum is something I would consider. I have such hyper-active cargos and cremaster muscle s which can pull my testicles up to the point where it looks as though they have dissapeared out of the sack. Can u guys see your scrotum sac moving when staring at it? My scrotum sac is constantly moving around. Its just odd that the muscles in my scrotum is activated through the whole day. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1271080118](#1271080118) - **[medilook](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1762364-medilook.html "View medilook's Profile")** - [![medilook's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1762364-medilook.html "View medilook's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1762364-medilook.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 167 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1762364) what if you just got surgery to prevent the penis from going into the fat pad? The injections are nice, but it's not permanent though right? There are surgeries to prevent penis from retracting into the body which I'm considering getting. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1271077820](#1271077820) - **[swampman](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1749665-swampman.html "View swampman's Profile")** - [![swampman's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1749665-swampman.html "View swampman's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1749665-swampman.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 60 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1749665) 240 bucks to be honest smartman, i think he said 100 on the insulin needle but he used 2 needles, it all happened so fast i wasnt paying attention as much as i was wondering whether or not i would be regretting it lol.... so far no problemo Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270603713](#1270603713) - **[Zmann](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1741151-zmann.html "View Zmann's Profile")** - [![Zmann's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1741151-zmann.html "View Zmann's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1741151-zmann.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 63 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1741151) I just brought this idea up with Wade and he seemed really interested, he was the first to note however it taking up to 5 days to see any results. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1271177936](#1271177936) - **[smartman](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1725031-smartman.html "View smartman's Profile")** - [![smartman's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1725031-smartman.html "View smartman's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1725031-smartman.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 464 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1725031) @swampman, Congrats, I am really happy for you sir, so we have now a non-invasive procedure which can treat Turtling of the penis for 4-6 months, but we should remember it has around 70% success rate . Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1271162585](#1271162585) - **[medilook](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1762364-medilook.html "View medilook's Profile")** - [![medilook's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1762364-medilook.html "View medilook's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1762364-medilook.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 167 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1762364) Mikehok. I have tried taking alphablockers. I took 2 pills a day and it does seem to help with Flaccid hang when im relaxed but I still had retraction during exercise. If your retraction is minor u probably wouldn't feel it much but for me it gets really bad to the point I have to stop running because the retraction is to much and causes me discomfort. It discourages me from running fast. Im not looking to get PMMA. I just wanna stop this severe retraction. It happens when I bend over/sit down. I also experience genital shrinkage while holding in bowels but it relaxes after I emptied. Everything. This is so odd and I don't feel like my penis/testicles are reacting normally. Alpha blocker isn't a cure but it does help with Flaccid hang and relaxes the pelvic muscles I believe. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270325212](#1270325212) - **[smartman](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1725031-smartman.html "View smartman's Profile")** - [![smartman's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1725031-smartman.html "View smartman's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1725031-smartman.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 464 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1725031) I agree with you hoddle :- Botox will help only guys who complain of penile Turtling it will just paralyze Dartos muscle , and not retraction post-penile lengthening surgery due to scar formation. I think it will help guys who are a Grower and may be it could help in penile PMMA bioplasty by preventing Turtling. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1271188957](#1271188957) - **[biggerbob](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1724974-biggerbob.html "View biggerbob's Profile")** - [![biggerbob's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1724974-biggerbob.html "View biggerbob's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1724974-biggerbob.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 135 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1724974) Well I did sign up for the Botox option. I figured that even at $300, it is probably cheaper than anything here in the states. I'll let everyone know what happens. I'm encouraged by swampman's report though. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270312173](#1270312173) - **[Mexmuscle](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1765440-mexmuscle.html "View Mexmuscle's Profile")** - [![Mexmuscle's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1765440-mexmuscle.html "View Mexmuscle's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1765440-mexmuscle.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 241 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1765440) I think that option would be great after lengthening surgery, which is precisely when one would want to avoid retraction. Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1270313968](#1270313968) - **[Mustang2020](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1715850-mustang2020.html "View Mustang2020's Profile")** - [![Mustang2020's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1715850-mustang2020.html "View Mustang2020's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1715850-mustang2020.html) - Moderator - ![Moderator](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rankmod.gif) - Posts: 1795 - Thanks: 18 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1715850) But will this effect EQ in any way? OR does it have any side effects? such as loss of sensation or? Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1271191024](#1271191024) - **[Mustang2020](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1715850-mustang2020.html "View Mustang2020's Profile")** - [![Mustang2020's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1715850-mustang2020.html "View Mustang2020's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1715850-mustang2020.html) - Moderator - ![Moderator](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rankmod.gif) - Posts: 1795 - Thanks: 18 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1715850) I do not want to argue with you,. My comments in a different post may have upset you. I do not wish to mention my source, but it is a Dr in Mexico itself. No, he is not a liar, as a matter of fact he was being extremely honest. As you may know, there are different levels of quality of Botox. I will change my comments to be more accurate in the previous post. In some Asian countries, they charge very little for Botox but it lasts only a couple of months... Did you read my words: "This is info I was given but I can't verify it and it is general info" I know some one who had Botox in Mexico and it lasted two months only! Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1271076339](#1271076339) - **[swampman](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1749665-swampman.html "View swampman's Profile")** - [![swampman's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1749665-swampman.html "View swampman's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1749665-swampman.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 60 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1749665) for those that miss my log, i had this done directly after round 2 of PMMA, and it was shot near the base on the bottom area of penis/testicle sack... 2 insulin needles 100 filled each and about 9 spot injections in all... 3 days to see, does lower sperm count though and he injected to treat testicle sack it will help with penis as well Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1271189239](#1271189239) - **[Mexmuscle](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1765440-mexmuscle.html "View Mexmuscle's Profile")** - [![Mexmuscle's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1765440-mexmuscle.html "View Mexmuscle's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1765440-mexmuscle.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 241 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1765440) > mustang2020 wrote: This is info I was given but I can't verify it and it is general info NOT against Dr C. I have been told that the BOTOX used in Mexico does not last more than two months when used in the face. IF a different brand is used for the penis retraction issue, then this statement does not apply... I hope you dont like to stereotype and generalize, because otherwise I dont know how come would anyone believe that affirmation. Lets take this: " I have been told that the BOTOX used in Mexico does not last more than two months when used in the face." So, if I have ONE doctor who did Botox on my face in Mexico and it lasted 9 months, what do we make of the person who told you that? Is he a liar? Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: The treatment of penile retraction 14 years 10 months ago [\#1271163389](#1271163389) - **[mikehok](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1724027-mikehok.html "View mikehok's Profile")** - [![mikehok's Avatar](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1724027-mikehok.html "View mikehok's Profile") - [ Offline](https://j4.phalloboards.info/forum/user/1724027-mikehok.html) - General - ![General](https://j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 83 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1724027) medilook, I agree with you. Alpha blockers work quite well for stress and even cold but exercise is just too strong. I experienced the same thing. Also in a similar way to you, if I have a strong urge to urinate it will also cause retraction. Oddly enough I tend not to retract lengthwise, mine just goes thinner, which I hate ! Please [Log in](https://j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly9qNC5waGFsbG9ib2FyZHMuaW5mby9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvNTQ5OTg5MS10aGUtdHJlYXRtZW50LW9mLXBlbmlsZS1yZXRyYWN0aW9uLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MSZzdGFydD0xNQ==) or [Create an account](https://j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. 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